Operating from this fairly simple working definition, it’s much easier to see all the other supposedly-objective debates about what is/isn’t art are actually all subjective conversations about “what kind of art *I* think is worthwhile” etc.

Imagine a Deadhead and a classical music fan locked in intense debate about what constitutes “good music” … painful and pointless, right? this is precisely how stupid I find all “but what IS art?” conversations.

To my mind, it would me much more fruitful to rephrase these conversations and start from a point where we both acknowledge each other’s subjectivity and also agree that a precise definition of art is not really such an interesting (or even possible) goal. Much better to just cut that out get around to what we’re REALLY talking about, you know?

That said, back to the issue at hand: I agree with both of y’all that actively looking for/trying to create the first “Real Art” Video Game (or whatever) is going about it the wrong way, but I have a slightly different take on it…

when I hear someone make the “video games aren’t art and are less important / valuable than real works of art” and/or “maybe they can be real art one day but they haven’t gotten there yet” arguments, what I actually hear from those people is “video games don’t do the thing for me that books/films/music does” and/or “I’m waiting for a video game that does that” … which is a red herring.

Video games aren’t going to produce a “Citizen Kane” because Citizen Kane is a FILM, and games are different from films. Looking for a “Citizen Kane of films” is like asking for a “Ulysses of songs” or a “Pet Sounds of literature” or a “Lucille Ball of painters” or a “Mona Lisa of popsicle stand advertisements” … they’re all vastly different media, and they all have their own strengths and weaknesses and things that they provide for their audience, and those things should be taken on their own merits rather than making silly apples/oranges comparisons and expecting the equation to balance on both sides, you know?

It’s true that a game like “Metal Gear Solid” will never be able to satisfy me in the way that listing to the Ramones does … and one is clearly better than the other, but that doesn’t mean that video games are NOT ART YET. Because at the end of the day, you could also say that a band like the Arcade Fire is never going to be able to provide me with the whimsy and joy and satisfaction of playing “We Love Katamari” … and why should we expect it to?